where are the track "POLICE" when you need them?

[rennmeister]

ok where do i start? i have been out to the track pretty regularly the last month or so and have had a pretty good time "RACING" with my son, friends and also making new friends along the way. key word being "racing" ,its apparent that some do not know what "racing" is or how to do it properly. since the rental track is becoming more and more popular with everyone we are seeing a growing number of "nubies" who need to learn what "racing" is all about. Racing is not about seeing how fast i can go into a corner only to pitch the kart sideways and slam into someone who is trying to pass them, or go so deep in that the only option is to do a 360 at the end of the straight and make everyone take evasive action. the pre-race talk about the flags and what they mean is irrelevant if no one enforces them. just left the track with my 9 yo old son who i am getting into karting and i would not like to be part of what i just experienced. i was purposely run into no less than 6-7 times in a 20 lap race by people who obviously don't understand the concept of "racing". i love to "race" and will try my best to do it cleanly and give my fellow competitors the same amount of courtesy they give me! if we don't educate the people who are on the track about the right and wrong way to participate i don't think i will be spending any more of my hard earned money on the rental track!
wish i had my camera to justify my rant......... i'm sure some other's aren't too happy either.

rennmeister

[Dustin Ducote]

I think the problem is that right now it's just people going out there and having fun and not really racing. It seems some people are looking at it like Bumper cars or something. Address your concerns with the staff next time you go and I'm more than sure they will squash that at the flag meeting prior to each session.

But remember renting the karts isn't racing. It's just renting a kart. So that allows anyone with $20 bucks to come and run. I would say if you are looking to get your son into racing look into a membership or a private session. I know I wouldn't put my 8 year old out there with the random people off the street. They have no etiquette when it comes to racing, they are just having fun.

[9secZR1]

I was there most of the day, saw the black flag used 4 times and 1 driver pulled out of the race around lunchtime. I feel your pain, but with rentals u are going to have guys running 29sec laps on the track with the 40sec guys. I am good for 30.05 or so, and have yet to spin w/o being hit in the rear trying to get around somebody in trouble, so I don't think I was your problem. I also see people passing under yellow and my buddy asked track staff about this and it seems that part is not really explained to everyone. Real racers know the rules but these are rentals, so the best u can hope to do is try to keep everyone safe while at the same time keeping them happy, which makes them come back.

Best advice I can give is not to buy into the 1st couple races, watch instead and see who the fools are. Run the heat right after them (get your slip while they are on the track) because they won't be out there with you.....I have done it like this for weeks and it works. Have fun and be safe :)

[Max]

I've been nailed in the regular rentals. Mostly by people that dont know any better i think. But the races at the end of the day were better. I was there for the race Sunday and didnt find it wasted rough. I think i made light contact only once from the vid i took. But I was first in grid and stayed there till lap 17 . When i was passed as i slowed for a spun kart on a yellow. That was never talked about in the pre-race talk. If you slow down for a yellow, you will be passed.
I would post the video, but my computer crashed.

[rennmeister]

the reply's are varied and i guess it depends where you were on the track at a certain point in time. max you had the best position in the house being first and didn't catch the crazy moves going on at the start. i think i started 10th or so and just being defensive was able to move to 5th by the end of the first lap. by the third lap or so i moved into second and was chasing you down. the problem started when we began to lap the ones who spun or were run into at the start. maybe they were angry or being defensive from what happened to them at the start. same thing for me if i slowed for a kart that was sideways in the middle of the track i was rammed from behind. I don't think any of them were looking ahead to see what was happening in front of them. towards the end of the race i was hit (second time by same person) and pushed sideways all the way around the corner ( other driver never let off the gas) until i was facing counter race direction and had to wait until several karts passed to re-enter the track. translation = RACE OVER! there was a group of riders whom i witnessed the previous week doing the same sort of wreck-less driving and one of which i clearly remember laughing and joking afterwards about how many people he hit during the race. you can still be fast and not run into anyone can't you??? I try my hardest to race cleanly and NOT HIT OR SPIN someone just for the sake of passing them. i guess my point is SAFETY should be first and foremost for everyone while on the track PERIOD! a 300-400 lb kart at 35-40 mph can be a serious weapon when not used properly. this type of driving needs to be stopped before someone gets hurt! NO ONES SAFETY should be compromised for the few who don't respect their fellow competitors. (FAST or SLOW .......a rider is a rider) i did see a couple of cameras on karts, would love to see some video to back me up on this............anyone???????

rennmeister

[Max]

I was one person with a camera. But my
computer crashed sunday. Hopefully it will be back up by the end of the week.

[Noodle Arms]

I agree completely. There is no flag enforcement, and no one pays attention to the flags when they are enforced. I can't even recount the amount of times I have been spun out by people who have no interest in "racing" and just want to go out and bang the karts up. There has only ever been one race where I wasn't spun out and most of the field was trying to race, making clean passes, etc., and it was hands down the most fun I've had on the rentals. I also can not recount the amount of times when I would approach a slower driver, and they would try and block me out from passing. They should give way and let the people that want to race get by instead of slowing everyone up and causing more problems. Which brings up another concern: Why is there no blue flag? FWIW, I usually go out there with about 6-8 people every time (all who want to race), and we will just get the next open heat, and all sign up first. That way It will put all of us in the front to where we can race, and let the other people behind us just go to town doing whatever it is they want to do. Anyways, I have the same concerns as you, Rennmeister, its just really frustrating. It's almost to the point where I want to stop the rentals all together, and just start saving for a KT100 or something so I can run with others that have an interest in racing.

[yeahyeah]

Couldnt argee more with both rennmeister and noodlearms. I think it has got to the point of you wanted to race your going to have to stay for the arrive and drive race. But the noobs still would stop me from riding the rentals, they are f###### fun.

[Todd M.]

And looking down the road, I would like to know if the same officials will be flagging the championship series. If they allow people to beat up NOLA's equipment, what will they let the privateers do to each other? This crap needs to be nipped in the bud now. This is one of the reasons I'm less interested in the dirt track racing I've been doing the last several years. Idiot drivers who don't know the difference between racing and demolition derby.

[Mitch Wright]

OK Guys I couldn't stay for the race at the end of the day but have been briefed by staff and have talked to some that ran the race and arrive and drive sessions.
Our staff is improving every week and we are still training new staff members. We don't disagree that rough driving is uncalled for and we have and will be pulling drivers off the track (we did end the day early for at least 4 people that I know of on Sunday). As far as flags on the arrive and drive track we use 5, green, yellow, black, red and checker we don't use the full flag sets as very few would have any idea of what they mean, we have to keep things to basic's.
As I said we are on the look out for rough driving and will do our best to spot the offenders and bring them. With all that said a very skilled driver told me a long time ago that you need to understand who you are racing with and drive appropriately, we will have beginner to advanced drivers racing we can learn something from both.

Look forward to seeing all this weekend.

[Troy V Smith]

I assume most of this thread (if not all) is being directed toward the rental side of karting? I feel for the few that are truly trying to get a good handle on the sport and become more involved in kart racing - particularly for the "thread starter" rennmeister. I would however, consider that there are two completely different worlds when it comes to karting. There are the rental karts (and by no offense intended to anyone), these would consist primarily racers whom I would consider to be more of a recreational and/or liesure group, and then there are the true kart racers which come with their own gear and run the "Test n Tune".

My primary point in this, is that the quality of racing you are going to get from the "true" racers on the "Test N Tune" side of the track is far greater than anything you are going to achieve on the rental side. As I see it, most of the rental racers are there for one purpose - to have fun. However, ones "fun" may often come at the expense of another racer. People will take way more chances in a rental kart than they will in something they own and have to "finance" themselves. Diving into a corner and hoping for the best may be second nature in a rental, but when you are going to have to pay for the damages to your own kart - in most cases, it is avoided.

Rentals, are just that - rentals. There are little worries when it comes to breaking something, irritating the driver next to you (after all you may never see the guy again), being kicked of the track, not understanding what a flag means, etc., etc.. Rentals are fun - fun to go as fast as you can, seemingly run over anything that stands in your way and attempt to be the fastest guy on the track regardless of outcomes. Anything beyond that is unrecognized and in most cases, probably not even thought of, or understood.

Such is not the same on the TNT's with the real "kart racers". These are the guys that have money invested. They understand who's going to have to fix their kart after a bad move. They "know" who is out on the track with them and usually pay respects to the other drivers around them. They are the ones taking far greater responsibility when it comes to racing than anyone in a rental. Speeds are higher, costs are higher - friends and trust is way more important over there on the TNT!

So, with that said, if your looking into getting into real kart racing, don't fall into thinking that what you experience on the rental kart is what to expect when participating in a real kart racing event - it's not. I too, would drive a rental far differently than I would my own. Rennmeister - I could only reccomend that if you are truly wanting a good race, quality racing against others with similar goals and expectations, you would have more success and "satisfaction" in the real kart racing side.

I can easily see where the folks really trying to race on the rentals can become discouraged quickly. But keep in mind too, that most of the guys on the rentals may not share the same values you do as a racer and are more focused on their version of pure, adrenalin pumping "fun". There is no telling who pops up on the rental track - it's just that - whom ever rents the kart. Don't get discouraged - come try my kart on TNT sometime - you'll be surprised at the difference in attitude, respect and driver courtesies.

[rennmeister]

troy,
you and i are on the same wave length. coming from a professional sportscar endurance racing background, overly aggressive driving and or contact is not what i would call good racecraft or sportsmanship no matter what you are racing! rule #1 take care of the equipment, period! it doesn't matter how fast you are if you can finish the race.
if you have seen any of the videos i have posted i would like to think my driving style would be considered "clean". i will gladly give up a corner to be able to continue and enjoy close racing for the duration of the session than risk a low percentage maneuver and end up off track in the grass or put someone else there. i realize that the rentals are just that and maybe i gave the other riders way more credit than they deserved. i have spoken with mitch about this and he and his staff are working to educate the track marshals and enforce any rules that may be broken . he assured me that "safety is first and foremost" at nola. i am looking for my own kart and talking to everyone to get the pro's and con's of each class. until then i still enjoy racing the rentals as long as it's not a smash and dash! there are several good riders who understand the concept and know how to have fun without all the intentional bumping and banging! i am looking forward to being in that group and viewed as a very competitive yet respectful rider.

rennmeister

[Twin1300]

I assume most of this thread (if not all) is being directed toward the rental side of karting? I feel for the few that are truly trying to get a good handle on the sport and become more involved in kart racing - particularly for the "thread starter" rennmeister. I would however, consider that there are two completely different worlds when it comes to karting. There are the rental karts (and by no offense intended to anyone), these would consist primarily racers whom I would consider to be more of a recreational and/or liesure group, and then there are the true kart racers which come with their own gear and run the "Test n Tune".

My primary point in this, is that the quality of racing you are going to get from the "true" racers on the "Test N Tune" side of the track is far greater than anything you are going to achieve on the rental side. As I see it, most of the rental racers are there for one purpose - to have fun. However, ones "fun" may often come at the expense of another racer. People will take way more chances in a rental kart than they will in something they own and have to "finance" themselves. Diving into a corner and hoping for the best may be second nature in a rental, but when you are going to have to pay for the damages to your own kart - in most cases, it is avoided.

Rentals, are just that - rentals. There are little worries when it comes to breaking something, irritating the driver next to you (after all you may never see the guy again), being kicked of the track, not understanding what a flag means, etc., etc.. Rentals are fun - fun to go as fast as you can, seemingly run over anything that stands in your way and attempt to be the fastest guy on the track regardless of outcomes. Anything beyond that is unrecognized and in most cases, probably not even thought of, or understood.

Such is not the same on the TNT's with the real "kart racers". These are the guys that have money invested. They understand who's going to have to fix their kart after a bad move. They "know" who is out on the track with them and usually pay respects to the other drivers around them. They are the ones taking far greater responsibility when it comes to racing than anyone in a rental. Speeds are higher, costs are higher - friends and trust is way more important over there on the TNT!

So, with that said, if your looking into getting into real kart racing, don't fall into thinking that what you experience on the rental kart is what to expect when participating in a real kart racing event - it's not. I too, would drive a rental far differently than I would my own. Rennmeister - I could only reccomend that if you are truly wanting a good race, quality racing against others with similar goals and expectations, you would have more success and "satisfaction" in the real kart racing side.

I can easily see where the folks really trying to race on the rentals can become discouraged quickly. But keep in mind too, that most of the guys on the rentals may not share the same values you do as a racer and are more focused on their version of pure, adrenalin pumping "fun". There is no telling who pops up on the rental track - it's just that - whom ever rents the kart. Don't get discouraged - come try my kart on TNT sometime - you'll be surprised at the difference in attitude, respect and driver courtesies.


Well said sir!!!!


......................bobby

[wow]

First Post,
Racing is racing and bumper cars is bumper cars! There is a difference. I too was in the race as mentioned above. The little guy who was in the lead (because he weighed much less) did his share of slamming into others. (Along with many others) At times, I thought is was bumper cars as people would try to slam you off of the track. I also experienced the guy who was "pushed" through the corner, and as I saw it, the other guy had the inside on a left turn. The guy that got spun out tried to cut him off (creating the contact) thinking the other guy would back off. Now it seems the guy is upset that he got spun out and wants to rant and rave when it was HIS own fault. Come on guys, If you want to RACE, get your own cart, and leave the rentals to the rental crowd. But keep in mind, Racing is racing. As the rules state "there is a difference between tough to pass and blatent blocking". And it seems that the guy in the earlier post has a rave about tough to pass! Get over it!

[Bob Beasley]

I'd add one thing to all the above

rentals are rentals
TNTs are TNTS
Racing is Racing

It's a lot more fun when you have to be legal and the green flag falls (from a sports car racing background). I can't wait until Jan 21!

[rennmeister]

wow,

since your post was directed towards me i'll respond with this:

which is it "racing or bumper cars" ? as i recall it wasn't a regular rental session it was a Arrive and Drive "RACE". the guy that led for the first 17 laps was "max" and was only passed when he was "HIT" from behind as he slowed for a yellow due to a spun kart in the middle of the track (and by the way it wasn't me). with so much contact going on are you sure it was me that you are speaking about because (i was in kart #24, which one were you in?)i was hit in the right rear (in a right hand corner) after i had made a "clean pass" on a slower kart in the previous corner. had i forced a bad move which was my own fault and resulted in me being spun i wouldn't have opened my mouth about it, because after all racing is racing! i know quite well the difference between "tough to pass" and "blatent blocking", and i welcome the "racer" that is tough to pass as this makes for good RACING. just let me know which it will be: "racing or bumper cars" so i can bring the appropriate helmet !

see ya at the track..............

rennmeister

p.s. congratulations on your first post buy you left a lot of blanks on your racer info/profile?

[Mitch Wright]

Ok I am of the opinion this horse has been beaten up and blooded. I think moving on to a new topic is in order. I am with Bob lets get the conversation going about the upcoming race and season.

[Wes@NMS]

Agreed, the horse has been beaten. :-)

See ya at the track, thread closed.

Wes